Black Men Are Avoiding Marriage
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"One of the reasons why black men don't marry is because most have grown up in single parent or illegitimate homes. Most have never seen a good marriage, first hand, leaving no desire for marriage. Marriage, for most of today's men is nowhere on the list of life's priorities. This is a major issue and is growing uglier by the generation, which is why the women in our communities must be more demanding of a marital commitment from their boyfriends before sex. Challenge them to be responsible men by making them wait and make a decision. Premarital sex changes everything — it changes his feelings about the woman, which is why most of the time it's a hit it and quit it situation.
Secondly, most of today's men don't understand the spiritual or natural significance of marriage and the impact it has on our children. They think marriage is only a piece of paper. This is where the Church comes in. We've got to preach about marriage. After all, a car registration is paper, a driver's license is paper (covered by plastic), a receipt is paper, and so on; yet, without most of these you would be considered illegitimate just as illegitimate as shacking up and pretending to be married.
Lastly, there is a Fear Factor. Men have a fear of losing sexual excitement, thinking the more (women), the merrier; they fear that one woman can't satisfy. Not knowing that sex in marriage is the greatest love of all because God's blessings are on the marriage, especially marriages that have the big three: love, commitment, and trust; anything else is uncivilized. Marriage is a true gift from God and it's a shame to see it go to waste."
Especially from my Renaissance Black Men!
A little bit about Pastor Davison -
Former RB for the Oakland Raiders and is now the Pastor of Harvest Family Life Center in Fairfield, CA. He's also the author of "The Spiritual Fragrance of a Woman : The Fragrance that Attracts the Right Man."
Thoughts???
Especially from my Renaissance Black Men!
A little bit about Pastor Davison -Former RB for the Oakland Raiders and is now the Pastor of Harvest Family Life Center in Fairfield, CA. He's also the author of "The Spiritual Fragrance of a Woman : The Fragrance that Attracts the Right Man."
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I bought Soulmate on DVD a while back but never watched it. Reading this kind of depressed me a little bit so I wanted to see if the DVD had any solutions or if it was just stating what we already know. Here is the trailer if you've never heard of it.
It's crazy how we as women plan these things out. Like me I want to get married in 2012. My 20's will be dead and gone, I will be 31 and ready to start a life with someone. Spend a couple years enjoying each other and then have a kid by 35. But this dvd showed me that the chances of this happening with a black man are close to slim. From 45 year old virgins, to women that are 50 that are happily single that have no desire to be married, to women who are 30 and feel like their life isn't complete until they get married and have children and cant think about anything else but being loved by a man.
One lady said "I said God I can't do this anymore, I'm too lonely and God said Sandra... I will allow you to continue to be lonely if you can tell me that I'm not enough... and there was no way I could tell God that he was not enough."
It talked about how society breeds us to believe we're no one unless someone loves us; but you have to channel your thinking to believe that you are someone because God loves you.
One thing that stuck out to me the most is that they said we as women cannot waste time and that men know within 2-3 months whether or not you are marriage material for them.
They said men quickly put you into a file :
Friendship file
Freak File
Forever File
That we need to stop holding on to men and waiting around for one we're with to come around and explore other options. While we're sitting around waiting on him to commit, we could be missing out on one that is ready.
Michelle McKinney Hammond, an author who I love love love said "Women should never pursue men. Never! You can go and get that man but if he was passive in pursuing you. He's going to be passive about other things in life that matter to you."
The most depressing part was :
The more educated you are, the more world traveled you are... the less likely you are to get married to a black man. Its sad. So should I have not went to grad school, should I confine myself to my current city, just so I can get a man that is black. That is crazy.
So with 2009 being the year of change...I think I have mentally decided to step outside my comfort zone. Maybe date outside my race, join a dating site, delve outside my normal type. Time shall tell whether I really have the guts to explore other options without settling.
58 comments
What up Eb!
I think that most guys in their 20's from Urban areas don't think about marriage.
"One of the reasons why black men don't marry is because most have grown up in single parent or illegitimate homes. Most have never seen a good marriage, first hand, leaving no desire for marriage."
I agree with that 110%. However, I also think that there are a couple of other things that you didn't mention.
As Men, we like to be challenged. There's nothing sexier than a woman that keeps me on my toes.
Another thing is that, to me, dating is a numbers game. And I hate to say it, but the numbers are in our favor ladies. It's possible to find the marriage material, you just have to find a a place where the numbers are in your favor.
PLEASE READ THIS 3 TIME/IMPORTANT RESPONSE TO THIS POST: This is a generalizing topic about us brothas. There are still some good brothas out here that want to get married, have families and take care of a sista. The problem is that those good brothas are getting overlooked for the thugs, dogs and man whores yall sistas keep chasing after thinkin he gon be yalls knight in shiny armour. The good brothas get overlooked usually due to some minor flaw like skin color, height, size,etc compared to the muscle bound brothas yall feen over. I am speaking from experience cause I seem to keep gettin the good friend label from sistas while the brothas I mentioned earlier get all the glory and attention. I am one of the last 100% blackmen that aint into white women cause I think that is disrespectful to my mother, grandmothers, my sister and my aunts to bring somebody home that doesn't look like them or overstand our struggle.
I am a single, college educated brotha with no kids, a good sense of humor and a friendly spirit with a good job. I got my own crib, my own money and alot of talent and limitless potential. I use to weigh 354 pounds and now I am down to 239 pds. I did that to try and lure a sista but keepin gettin dragged and taken advantage of not knowing the reasons why.
I seriously think it wack. I have alot to offer a sista and I aint afraid of marriage. I was married for 10 years until my wife decided to step out on me. I love sistas especially sistas who are a size 9 or above. I am a soul cat into jazz, art and culture. I go to alot of events and gatherings alone looking to meet sistas like wine tastings, plays, poetry recitings, art openings.etc. My crib is full of art, music, books and old jazz records. I don't smoke or drink and I love kids. I HAVE RANTED ENOUGH.
I think sistas should widen their prospective and give ALL brothas a chance to prove themselves as worthy soulmates and potential husbands. I am in my early 30's and aint gone give up on finding a good black woman who'll except me and my eclectic life while letting me perform my duties as her soul provider as she becomes the center of my universe.
peace
jody
How to comment on this without turning a comment into a post? I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that women mature faster and therefore are marriage-minded sooner. Then there's the "if I'm getting the milk for free, why buy the cow aspect". We can't even get into the spiritual aspect because most men (sadly) aren't in church on Sundays.
I agree with the pastors thinking, but they don't apply to all men. There are some marriage-minded men out there.
I am a part of the single's ministry at my church and we watched Soulmate's. It was an interesting, thought provoking DVD to say the least. Definitely a conversation starter and a good idea if you ever decided to get a group of bloggers together to watch it.
Good luck stepping outside your comfort zone. Keep us posted.
@brran - your are right... the numbers aren't in our favor... we all know that the ratio of blackmen : black women makes for a lot of single black women out there and that's why we have no choice but to look to other races if we want to find love because fact of the matter is whether they are a good black man or a not so good black men, their aren't enough black men to go around.
@The Jody - You are completely right. But what the nice guy doesn't understand is that there is a thin line between your preferences and settling. We all know what we like in the opposite sex and why should I have to settle for a person that is nothing like that because he is a nice guy. I'm not the chick that goes around chasing the bad guy. I want someone who is educated, cultured, romantic, and who is going to court me. Another thing the movie touched on is that the roles have changed and now that men know that they have the upperhand they want the woman to sweat them, to be the one calling them and pursuing them. The ladies that dont sweat dudes are the ones without a man like me. I'm not calling them all the time, I'm not sitting at home twiddling my thumbs waiting on them to call either. I know I have a problem with making a man feel like he's needed because I have a go-getter mentality and feel like if I want something I go out and get it myself and dont wait on a man to do it for me. Black men are intimidated by that.
PS - I love a solid 250 pounder...lol; my friends always get on me about how big the dudes are that I date...lol.
Organized Noise - Good idea on getting a forum of bloggers together to discuss it...and you know you are free to turn your comment into a post...lol
The thing that gets me is that women seem to be making most of the sacrifices. We have to accept it, deal with it, and stay single. There are plenty of women who weren't exposed to marriage or even committed relationships as children, plenty of us raised by single parents, plenty of us who weren't taught the significance of marriage either. To me, it has nothing to do with how educated of a man I want, what career he has, and so forth. It has to do with self accountability. You have a choice. I will do my part, but black men need to do theirs.
I've been thinking about stepping out of my comfort zone too, but then again, will I have regrets later on that I didn't wait for that black man I really wanted to marry to come along, or change my expectations just because he has no desire to be married? Why aren't more black men stepping out of THEIR comfort zones?
@Aj - Yes Yes Yes. We come from those same backgrounds... and yet we have to adjust, make better lives for ourselves. I think that most men feel they can live a completely full and prosperous life without ever being married. My father is 46 and has never been married and has had no desire to be. He loves his bachelor life. Granted he used to talk about the 1 that he let get away when I was younger... I will never forget Desiree... but never looked at is as if it was something he couldn't live without.
Women want the full companionship. The fairytale, the romance, and we do all the bending over backwards to get that because we feel if we dont then we will never get it since those things arent as important to men.
I feel you on the regrets. Right now I still cant see myself seriously dating a man that isn't black but I think I should at least test the waters a little bit to see what else is out there. I want a black man... and I dont want to be 50 and still waiting for him but I can see myself being a lot more patient in holding out for him than some other black women. I feel I deserve a black man, and that for me... settling down with a man that isn't black would be settling.
Eb, girl, I'm gonna need you to STOP reading watching listening to self-help stuff on relationships, seriously!! All these pundits who speak on "why you can't find/keep/attract a man" only serve and feed insecurities and depress the hell out of normal, healthy people.
Do they have any scientific studies backing their theories? Or are they bending so-called common sense and statistics to fit their needs? You know I'm a conspiracy theorist so I don't trust ANY of them. At. All.
you want to know you or how to best be ready for a great love? then see a shrink to get some objective perspective on your unique situation or meditate or something, but these books n stuff... say BYE to them, PLEASE!! lol
and this "...anything else is uncivilized" that the pastor dude said makes me so mad... I cannot stand it when clergy of any kind say that mess, because it conjures up images of letters written by colonial explorers who described the Native Americans as such... uncivilized why? Because it's not how HE does it? Man, get the hell out my face... GRRR!!
Them dashing my hopes and your hopes and ANYBODY'S hope of love in the future is uncivilized, how 'bout that?
OK, I'm gonna stop now... my pressure is all up... you seem like a good person who has worked hard for everything you've achieved and you should NEVER second guess anything you've pursued in an attempt to enrich your life. That's it... that's all I got
LMAO @ Jaded Nyer - You know I love you giiirrrrlll... and I hear ya... but the numbers dont lie... I dont look to self help books or videos and such on advice to catch a man. You should know by now that I do what I want to do and how I want to do it. Its just interesting to hear about what other women are going threw. I'm still always led by my own heart.
They dont make me insecure about anything but they do depress me a bit. Hearing all the statistics and wondering when the hell this dude is going to find me, but I feel that's normal for a woman my age that is single with no kids and no dog...lol. As long as I don't let my thinking about that hinder my accomplishments or prevent me from achieving my goals. I definitely dont regret going to grad school, or achieving the things that I have, I was just saying that in a sense that if I didn't would I have a man and I know that isn't the case. I was moreso being sarcastic.
OK, good, I'm glad you saw it for what it was, cuz I was gonna have to find that pastor and get my BK homies to kick his butt for planting bad thoughts in your head!!! lol
interesting post. you know, i still have faith in black men. there are good guys out there somewhere.
and i think there's some truth to the 3 categories men place women into. i definitely can tell within a month whether a man is worth my time, so it's not surprising to me that men do the same thing. i just have to make sure i'm not put into that freak category lol.
One of my fave quotes comes from the movie Something New and it says:
"If we keep hanging on to this pre-conceived notion of what we think we want, we are actually cutting ourselves off from our universal abundance."
Be more open this year girl and you shall be rewarded. Lol.
PS: When you want what you want more than what God wants, you'll always be unhappy or unsatisfied.
Before I start...... if a man is focused on you it will not take him nearly that long for him to label you as Friend, Freak, Forever.
Except forever is called "potential" cause most men will put a clock on to see how long takes a woman to F it up before he puts a ring on it.
Oh and if you give up the ass quick you automatically get put into freak status, do not collect ring.
And you got to be a bad ass chick to get out of that catagory once in.
It's like having a rap sheet.
The Rev is right in that men no longer see the value in marriage.
Sex, children can be had out of wedlock.
Women make money so they do not ned to be taken care of.
That leads love, but most men learn eraly on to hold onto that card till the end.
So exploring you options which seems to be the only solution offered by relationship gurus, (funny how sitting black men down and asking them whats it going to take never comes up), the thing they dont tell you about exploring your options is that while increasing you dating pool it also increase your competition with women of other races.
Funny how they say do not settle by exploring your options but if your goal is a black men than wouldnt exploring your options be settling anyway?
The one thing I can say for sure is that it is best if the man, who ever he is, is the one doing the chasing.
@clnmike - I was with you until you said "sitting black men down and asking them what its going to take" what do you mean by that? How exactly is that conversation going to go?
"Yo so we've been dating for like a year... what is it going to take for you to put a ring on it? yeah right! One thing I know more than anything is that black men do NOT like being given ultimatums. Its like a huge power trip and they will lose the one they love before they just do something because she said she is going to leave if you dont. They make come back later after the realized that they lost... but initially, the ultimatum mess doesnt work.
And yes I agree that if I marry a white man that would be settling because I have no desire to... but I dont feel that dating and seeing what else is out there is settling. I think its just sowing my royal oats until my black man does find me.
Wrong, it is not an ultimatum, it's called requesting a down payment and time frame of completed purchase begore letting him ride.
And I understand the sowing my royal oats bit.
Handle your, lol.
give up premarital sex? BOYYYY STOP. I love how the pastor emphasizes the importance of sex for men in ALL three paragraphs -and suggests the women should alter their sexual behavior...as if we don't have NEEDS and DESIRES! Get out of here! Sex with the same penis for 50 years is a SCARY thought to me, too dang.
man... let me tell you why i'm mad:
i have absolutely NO desire to corral a black man into marrying me. ever. thats not to say i want to be completely courted either...but damn it's freaking 2009 and two intelligent adults that love each other should be able to have a conversation about fears and realistic expectations for the future of their relationship without the black man bitching up all the time.
First, I agree with Jaded. I think all this is a bunch of nonsense that leads to finger-pointing. Plus, a pastor preaching marriage is like a real estate agent telling me I need to be a homeowner w/o knowing my situation. Credibility = 0.
That said, in the interest of dialogue, I'd say the problem is more with black women than black men. There's PLENTY of black men married to women of other races. Black women seem to be willing to exclude all other races to their own detriment. Is it settling to get with someone of another race and even marry them or is it settling to stick with someone who might not have any intention to marry you (and maybe even told you so but you didnt listen) simply b/c you're black and he's black and together you're almost a black family?
Yeah Jaded and I EYE TO EYE That mess I don't subscribe to at all, I do think you should explore your options cause you never know who'll LOVE you for you, nurture you and fulfill your spirit and needs... like what if dude REALLY doesn't look like what you picture he should be like?? I mean that won't negate that you like what you like but what if race or background IS really the only difference you have?
I say explore and Love and Cherish YOU, don't get down because a church person with a whole other mentality than yours (who might or might NOT have gotten his wild oats out of the way before "getting right" whatever that is)has to say on the subject, seeing as how no one else is in your shoes but you!
As a man who has been married and divorced already. I was eager to find my "soulmate" and get married when I was younger and I attended several weddings of my friends so I know that there are brothers out there who want to get married. The problem seems to be more about finding the right person for you. Nothing wrong with opening yourself up to as many options as there are men/women out there. Like you said, Eb, you know what you like and there is no need to settle for something less. So are your expectations unrealistic? Are you looking for substances or just someone who looks good on paper? Are you bringing enough to the table? None of us knows the answer. Just keep living your life and when the Lord sees fit to place that person in your life it will happen. Just pray that you recognize them.
Great post Eb!
One thing that really bothers me was the rev's comment about waiting until marriage. The way that he states it, makes it come off like, to get the panties, women should make you marry her first. I hate that way of thinking. You wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone shouldn't be based on the fact that she has a vagina and by marrying her, you can finally get some. Marriage should entail a stronger connection than just a physical one.
And as far as men losing sexual excitement... HA! It kills me how sexual gratification revolves around men and their needs when 9 times out of 10, its the man that isn't satisfying a woman. Women deal with 2 minute men, 2 inch men, or men that are simply too much, but in the end, it is about his needs being met.
That kills me.
I say expand your horizons Eb. While I understand your hesitation in doing so, love comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Why limit yourself or your options?
Wow, not sure how to respond to this. I guess the fact thatI am world travelled, have my masters degree, have a great paying job with the government, can support myself and my son on my own (though I don't have to), I am completely out of the running as marriage material. As far as men are concerned I have too many strikes against me hence the reason I've been tiptoing back into dating. Apparently men aren't for "ready made families". I've dated outside my race before and it is no different. Men are men. I do agree that we tend to focus too much on the fact that we feel we must be attached. My best friend said it best, we attract what we put out.
Girl, I encourage you to do what you have to do in order to find happiness. Sometimes you really do have to look in unexpected places. Don't limit yourself. Shit, you better make it do what it do, lol.
I've heard all of these things before and I always find myself confused. Like, damn, well how does a woman really find a good man? I definitely agree with some of the points, but I think it might boil down to maturity levels and truly knowing what you want. They say that women mature faster than men. I don't know.
Anyhoo... like I said, just do you and don't limit yourself. You never know what you might find =)
its weird, but i think i can say i can agree with most of the comments... there are a bunch of guys that would like to get married in their twenties or whenever... but the thing with black women seems to be the whole attitude thing... the whole, beyonce movement... independant woman... whatever you may call it. they dont want a guy to be in the traditional role of provider since women now make their own money and "dont need a man for anything"... another thing that i would say makes a big difference is edcuation... a woman being edcuated sometimes puts her above alot of guys... and vice versa... i dont think anyone wants to be with someone stupid... and family and ecoonomic background plays a part also... if someone grew up in a broken home on government support... i would imagine they would have a different outlook on life and family life than someone that grew up with both parents and if both parents were educated making over 6 figures each... there are alot of factors... but me personally, i would want someone that is not like me(i still want to marry a black woman) but someone who is something i am not... i want to learn and if im with someone that is different from me, we can grown and learn together...
Hello there!
I agree with you that black women need to really accept the reality that there ARE NOT the same numbers of black men in this country as there are black women.
The statistics do not lie.
Even if there WERE the same numbers of black men as black women, this does not mean that those black men will ALL choose to be married, or will choose a black wife.
Black women need to start expanding their options. They need to do so as SOON as they can because waiting until the age of 40 to decide that there is a SCARCITY of black husbands in this country is much toooo late.
I wrote a post, "The Preacher Woman's Tips For Getting A White Man" because I wanted to point out that there is a preparation process involved in leaving the all-black setting for social settings that have VERY DIFFERENT dynamics.
There is clothing AND body language that is accepted in the all-black construct that will have a black woman labeled as "whorish" in an all-white construct. I find that the assumption is that ONLY bimbos are overtly sexual.
In the all-black construct, THAT assumption is not being made about women who are dressed in a highly sexual manner.
In the all-white social setting, there are stereotypes about black women being "loose" that are further reinforced by overly sexual clothing choices.
There are many different aspects of the social construct that CHANGE when leaving an all-black social setting.
I believe that black women need to expand their options. Black men have been doing it and somehow, black women have refused to be broad in their partnering options...to their own detriment.
Sorry this comment is so long. I just hope I said something that was helpful.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Men have a window of opportunity when they are open to marriage. A lot of women however either don't know when this window is open or what to do when it is open. Some guys want to get their finances right, some guys want to get themselves right...what have you.
I got married when I was 31. Didn't have either together..had an
8 year old daughter...but I got married when my window of opportunity was open..I was comfortable with my daughters mother,I had sowed my wild oats and I didn't see anything out there better for me at the time.(Still haven't)The finances and everything else worked itself out.
Help a guy break down all of his excuses and make him comfortable and you got him. The thing is, a lot of sisters start pushing and pressuring and the guy runs off.
Keep a cool head, be supportive,while making your desire
for marriage known, but don't pressure. By that,I mean don't bring it up everytime you are with the guy..Just bring the subject up enough so that it is in the back of his mind. If he's about something and he really wants you,
you won't have to ask too much..He'll be asking you.
This is just my personal perspective. This June will make 20
years I've been married..Never been
committed to anything that long.
Hope this shed some light.
@ Jody
I don't mean any harm....but you are saying you want a sister who is a size nine but you used to be over 350??
You have lost more than 120 pounds and that is commendable...but my point is that you seem to want a sista with a certain body type but are YOU bringing that body type to the table?
If you find that you are being taken advantage of by women, then perhaps you need to re-examine your screening process....HOW are you choosing these women? Most men choose based on looks and personality. A sweet and funny personality can be manufactured and is not evidence of good character.
It takes A LOT for a woman to commit adultery... ONE PERSON is never to blame for a failed marriage. The one who cheats is not more guilty than the one who is cheated on because the one who is cheated on has failed the relationship also.
How many woman would cheat on a man who is her all-and-all? Not many. I am not saying this to bash...not at all... I am just saying that sometimes when we see ourselves as a victim, we don't examine what we NEED TO change in order to have more healthy relationships.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
People need to stop listening to all these bullshit generalizations (Eb, I'm talking about the people who make these comments based on NOTHINGNESS and those who listen to them) b/c it gets you nowhere fast.
Furthermore, there are far too many people out here who let other people's negative relationships define what will happen in there. Because of that, they work so hard to find the opposite of that and end up getting a wolf in sheep's clothing b/c he sees what you were looking for. It makes no sense and it takes way too much energy.
Ya'll have what/who you're meant to have when you're meant to have it. You may not LIKE the timeframe but if you force yourself to go against it, you'll get SOMEONE but it may not be the person for you.
I think thats alot of men period from this generation! Now men don't want to get married they want to shack up with no commitment ugh what are you coming to lol
First and foremost... great post Eb!
Secondly... I think that there is definitely nothing wrong with dating out of your race... 2009 may also be the year of marriage, but it is also a year of change and openness to new things peoples and perspectives...
third... I don't think that I even want to watch the video you have posted, because I don't want anything to shake the notion that I will find my prince charming one day...
fourth... You touched on a great point with marriage and the effects of not coming from a two parent home... I don't even know what to say about that, other than the fact that its a shame and it needs to change...
ONce again, great post - and if my ish doesn't make sense its because its almost 3am and I'm tired!
xoxo
First off, that pastor is cute...and close enough for me to swing on over to sunday service in the morning lol j/k
That clip just depressed the hell out of me. Since I hit 25 two years ago, I have been worried that I will end up like that beautiful woman with the silver hair: single and childless at 50+. It truly scares me to think that I might not ever find a man who loves me enough to commit to me..wait, let me clarify that. It scares me to think that I might not ever find a man WHO I LOVE who loves me enough to commit to me.
If I was in the settling mood, I'd be married with kids by now...and seriously unhappy. I'm not looking for that AT ALL.
I enjoy the single life for now. But I do want to grow old with someone and I do want to have kids with my husband...not a sperm donor.
Living in a place like California, where the numbers are in the Black mans favor and in addition to the millions of black women who are competition, there are a plethora of white, asian, latina, middle eastern and every other culture under the sun interested in Black men...why would they settle down? I almost understand why Black men aren't trying to get married and pass up all the free goodies that comes along from not being committed to one woman.
Thats why I told myself that I would definitely think outside of the box. I remember Oprah said on one of her shows that the numbers just dont add up so if you're going to wait around and pine away specifically for a Black man, good luck on that. The woman has a point. Even one of my Black male friends once asked, "If Black men aren't loyal to you, then why the hell are you loyal to Black men?" So I'm getting me a Chad Wykowski and a Juan Carlos Gonzales for the new year. I loves me some chocolate, but chocolate has to love me back for this to work...and if chocolate doesnt wanna love me back, I'm sure there is some vanilla who will. :)
Wow, it's kinda wierd how people are bashing a PREACHER for saying that women should wait for marriage to have sex. Why would a preacher endorse pre-marital sex? HE'S A PREACHER!
Thats like a preacher telling people it's ok to lie or cheat, steal, kill, decieve. Fornication is considered a sin...OF COURSE HE'S GONNA SAY "DONT HAVE SEX" lmao
Now, if you dont believe in waiting for marriage, then thats on you, but it's kind of ridiculous to think that any minister would promote that.
And to be honest, I've heard HELLA men say that if women would keep their legs closed more often, plenty of men would re-evaluate their actions. That all has to do with options. If a man has two women, and one wont have sex, but the other one will, he'll most likely deal with the one who will. But if both aren't having sex, he'll be forced to deal with both women on another level. This is just what I've had men tell me in discussions about female/male relationships and dynamics. Collectively, we as women have a lot of power...we just dont know how to really use it to our benefit.
My father has been telling me the same thing since I was 16yrs old in re: men knowing w/in months how they really see you...
I do think that a lot of our men are intimidated by marriage and that's sad. Nothing is sexier to me than black love. In the area I live in, my chances of getting married are dam near slim to none unless I want to marry a dope boy.
Eb it all seems so sad but at the end of the day we have to do for ourselves.
If God sends the right person my way all good. But, if not I will continue to do me.
"It takes A LOT for a woman to commit adultery... ONE PERSON is never to blame for a failed marriage. The one who cheats is not more guilty than the one who is cheated on because the one who is cheated on has failed the relationship also."
That was a bunch of bullshit.
Let me explain that.
It is ALWAYS the cheaters fault because you ALWAYS have the option to walk away from an unhappy relationship.
If some one chooses to cheat they are making a conscious decision to betray the trust and intentionally hurt the person they are committed to.
Regardless of what the motivation is choices are on the table and the wrong one was taken purposely.
As far as it taking a lot for a woman cheat.
I find that hard to believe since entire music genres, movies, plays, art, murders, and wars have been created or committed because of a cheating women.
@Krush - Not at all... I dont think my expectations are unrealistic... and as far as career is concerned... I usually dont take the big money makers... they are always blue collar dudes that I end up liking... and that's why I dont understand it because I'm not the chick that is only looking for the investment banker or doctor or lawyer... quite frankly most of them are too uptight for me and I am too carefree as you probably already know. I dont want this post to come off as if I'm worried about it because I am nowhere near ready to be married right now. Its just depressing to see women in their 40's and 50's that have never been married and many dont have kids... that depresses me because I dont want to be that woman and the statistics say that chances are that I will be. That is very depressing.
@Mika - yeah that didn't sit with me right either...
@Monique - I understand that men are men... I'm not saying by dipping out that I will find a better man, I'm just saying that I'll never know what else is out there if I dont dabble. Not even really wanting to know though... because I really have no desire to be with any other type of man. I WANTS ME A BRUTHA...lol.
@TRENT - WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG... That's an insecurity thing that black men need to get over... its not that we dont "want"a guy to be in a traditional role... we do want that... just know that we now have our own as well and dont "need" you to be that. An excuse to not step up and be a man because of woman is independent and has her own is really starting to get old. You need to face it... women are making more money, women are getting their masters and other forms of higher education. Times have change and men need to put their egos aside and deal with that. The problem lies when the women also pick up that ego because they have their own. I don't think I am like that at all. I would never be Joan from the Girlfriends, who when she finally found a man, everything was still a power trip with her about money. Ya'll need to stop categorizing every independent chick as the same because we're not. Some independent women still know how and want to take care of home.
@Lisa - Your always helpful and thx for commenting. I plan on dabbling a little bit but right now I cant see myself ending up with white man or man of any other race that isn't black. Hell I'm not even attracted to light skin black men. I loves my chocolate and part of me feels like if I did settle down with someone that wasn't, that deep down my soul would still be searching for that. So in essence, having a man that isn't what I want to me is also settling even if the numbers aren't in my favor. But this is me talking in my late 20's... I'm sure if I dont find a chocolate man by 30 that my outlook on exploring other options wont feel so much like settling.
@Keith - I believe everything you said and I'm not one for pressure. I actually fear the whole marriage thing and if I ever do get to that point will probably be engaged for a while to make sure. My mom has been married a couple times and I'm not trying to do all that. I want to be sure that its going to be forever...
@Miss BB - Exactly, I dont listen to the generalizations... thats why I asked for thoughts to see that I wasn't the only crazy one... but although I dont completely understand the reasoning... the numbers definitely dont lie and that's why I added to video and info on that dvd so we could see first hand what black women are dealing with.
@WWW - It makes perfect sense... and I can understand not wanting to watch. It really depressed me, my prayers have since turned to please lord dont let me be that woman 20 years from now.The cycle definitely needs to change. I dont want my little step sisters and my god daughter to be going threw this same mess 40 years from now... we have to break that mold to get it back right for all the little girls.
@Suga - The sad part is... the way the situation is now... its as if what you are asking for is too much to ask for. Like society has trained us to believe that we aren't good enough for that anymore. That that isn't the life for black woman anymore. That we are destined to either be single mothers or successful with no man and no kids. But I'm not going to believe that, for me or for you and any other RBW's out there.
Lmao @ your wiykowski and gonzalez... I am going to try some flavas on for size to but I cant ignore what's in my heart. I truly dont believe that I will truly be happy with a man that isn't black but maybe a wykowski or gonzalez will come along and prove me wrong
@Suga - We definitely have lost the power of the P.U.S.S.Y because so many women give it out so freely. If we took a stand altogether to reject our pussies we would have men eating out of the palm of our hands. But there would always be a handful of superhead type chicks that would come and mess up the movement for everybody...lol
@Clnmike - I both agree and disagree. I agree that its a choice and is most definitely not the other persons fault that their spouse is dipping out, but I disagree about it not taking a lot for a woman to cheat. We are emotional creatures so it does take a lot for us to step out and commit adultery. There is an emotional attachment there that when a man cheats is usually just him having sex and no intentions of anything further. If a woman dips out its because she is looking for something that her husband isn't providing. I'm not saying always but in most cases. Their are some women who cheat just because.
There may be waaaay more to those women being single in those age groups than we know. *needs to watch the video* I'm going to go watch it and probably post again but I will say that a lot of times people do not like to be honest about why they're in certain situations. It could be that God hasn't sent them that person. OR, it could be that their attitude SUCKS like a mofo and no one wants to be around all that for life.
@Eb
So what do you think needs to happen for us to bridge this apparently WIDE disconnect? Personally, I think it's bigger than a single-parent home background. Seems like black men & women are starting to resent each other and I know plenty of black men that won't even look in a sista's direction for reasons that I can't fault them for (mentioned earlier). I can't help but hope having to look at the Obamas for 4 years will help somewhat. Maybe I'll go get some seasons of The Cosby Show too. ;-p
"Not knowing that sex in marriage is the greatest love of all because God's blessings are on the marriage, especially marriages that have the big three: love, commitment, and trust; anything else is uncivilized. Marriage is a true gift from God and it's a shame to see it go to waste."
I would have to totally agree with that. Even though I've been running around here like a lil boy sorta speak..sex in a loving marriage carries things to another dynamic and thinking otherwise does not seem natural to me. Sex is a great thing...however, for me it seems empty when I'm dealing with an old faithful or even folks I love. Dude Ant and I were engaged and it all still seemed empty. And as I continue to "roam" it just seems like a need is not being fulfilled. I'm still looking for it to be filled but in my heart I know it won't be until I'm settled with someone who wants to be in it for the long term.
"The more educated you are, the more world traveled you are... the less likely you are to get married to a black man. Its sad. So should I have not went to grad school, should I confine myself to my current city, just so I can get a man that is black. That is crazy."
A friend and I were discussing this yesterday. Sad. That's why I'm almost hesitant to let men know what I've accomplished and about owning businesses. It seems like they fade to black after that.
Interesting concept and I think it holds some validity. I think one of the issues is that marriage is really a very traditional institution - with today's values being far more removed from where they once was - things like marriage, respect, and other great values all get sort of lost in translation. We could talk about this for hours - lol.
Thank you for the goodbye dear. I will be keeping in touch. I've missed out on so much. email me at tthomas4@vzw.blackberry.net. I'm not one to lose touch. What's up when dem cowboys I love my babies but they need to send tony and his bad luck bitch packing so he can show up in post! Love ya holla!
Oh and you will be happily married when God is ready for you to be. Trust.
@Miss BB - Maybe but I dont think so. None of them came off bitter or angry so I dont think that's necessarily it. A lot of them were Godly women and are probably sitting on their butts saying God will bring him to me but if your sitting in the house how can God bless you with that man if your not in the places you need to be to meet him. But again... I dont know any of them personally so I can't say.
@and1grad - If I had the answer to that I would be a millionaire and have my own boo by now. Personally I think its a power and ego trip. That we both need to put everything out on the table... strip ourselves bare and start over. I think too many of us continue to just state the obvious and expect the other party to change and dont look within our self to see what adjustments we need to make.
@Seven - Sad, but maybe I will stop telling men what I've accomplished as well.
wow all i can say is thats deep! who knew things were this bad. i think that being married to or dating a woman who is more successful intimidates some men. also it seems as though as sisters we have somewhat given up on love or put it on the back burner so to speak for careers. we have learned to be independent and if a good man comes along, so be it. we have also gotten used to the way men are so we just do us. some of us have probably given up on getting married period opting to be single, because we believe that is the only kind of happiness that is accessible. well these are just my thoughts. i might have to pick up that dvd...at first i thought you were talking about a drama, not a documentary but nonetheless, i still think its worth watching.
I apologize up front for the long comment.
This is all very interesting. This whole "soul mate" thing is nonsense to me.
Excuse me if I sound too skeptical. I have been called a "love hater" and I'm OK with that.
The bottom line in all this is people make too many decisions based on their feelings. Every time I turn around somebody is always saying, "listen to your heart," or "follow your heart." Quite frankly, that shit is dangerous.
Why, you may ask? How often do your feelings change? Most people I know are always feeling some kinda way about something.
One minute, you're pissed, the next you're somewhere laughing about something totally different.
People who make decisions based on their feelings are often always caught up in something because they act on impulse.
The proper thing to do is to make decisions with your head after you've had time to digest your situation.
Now, the reason people aren't getting married anymore is because they don't have to. Back in the day, our grandmothers got married to men who could take care of them and their children financially because they could not go out and get jobs that paid enough for them to take care of themselves.
Now, women don't "need" men to take care of them financially so they are waiting to find the man that they love as opposed to marrying a guy and falling in love later.
Let's face it, men have never really wanted to get married. They did it because it was expected of them. Now, everyone is living for themselves and usually don't marry until they start getting lonely.
The problem with women is we read all those princess stories when we were little and we all think we're going to get our prince and our happily ever after.
That's not how it works. The sooner we realize that, the better off we'll be.
This has scarred a lot of us for life and quite frankly, I'm pissed at Disney. In fact, I'm suing their asses for pain and suffering.
Just my $.02 cents.
Okay, I watched the clip and you're right that these women do not seem bitter. Let me say that I didn't mean to imply that some women who have "sucky attitudes" are BITTER; there are a lot of things that go into having a not so nice attitude.
I do agree that for the most part being single and satisfied is a process (the 52 year old FAB woman said that). I have been very lucky and blessed to have always been okay with begin single b/c I know that when it's time for me - if it's meant for me - the man for me will appear. If you truly belive, IMO, that God "shapes," for lack of a better word, you world, then you let Him do it. Now, I do HOPE that the FP (Future Politician) is the one for me someday; if not, he is the Prototype. *cue Andre 3Thou* But only time will tell.
Eb, if you want to get married in 2012, it can DEFINITELY happen. There are plenty of men to marry out here. But if you want the man for YOU, he may not be set to appear until 2015. Then look: you married this next dude in 2012 and the man that was made for you didn't shoe up til three years later just to show you that "you made your choice and didn't wait on Him to do it for you."
I have to check this film out though b/c my best friend told me about it awhile ago.
Firstly, I was listening to independent woman by Neo the other day thinking for a second this is some bull-ish in a way. although I am totally and fully the "independent woman" he describes in the song, I feel that a lot of men use this as an excuse. What happened to the days when a man took care of a woman. What happened to when a man provided period. A friend of mine has a Mother that has not worked since her second child and they have a beautiful relationship. He pays the bills and loves his wife. She takes care of the home and their children and are happy doing so. What is wrong with that. I feel like this generation of man, I guess because of society, wants a woman to not only take care of the home and the kids but to heed to their sexual desires as well, where we have to compete with the strippers and hoes but now you mean I have to be success in business too, not just have a job but a career and my own car, and condo, and long bank account?? WTF
Secondly, I think for some reason this day and age most black men want to be Diddy. Especially in the our field of business. I feel that black men want to be a mogul, and have women falling at their feet but still want to have sons to carry on the legacy... That to me is an oxymoron. I'm sorry! We have lost the foundation of what life is about. And there are not enough positive black family's in the media as examples to show this is how it's done.
@lovely & lively - I totally agree... I dont know why black men blame us for stepping up and making things happen for ourselves in our lives. They are the reason the roles had to change because so many of them weren't stepping up. We had no choice but to do what we had to do to survive.
@Smarty - Let me know how that Disney lawsuit pans out...lol
but on the real... love most definitely aint logical... people do crazy things for love... but a marriage cant be built solely on that... or like you said, it will fail.
@Miss BB - How old are you though. I am happy being single as well because I am still in my 20's. I cant see myself singing this same song when I'm 40 plus. Hell I know I couldn't sing that same song then. I would be bitter and angry and wondering why he hasnt found me, not happy and fruitful like these women are. And that 2012 thing would just be ideal for me. We always plan our life out and sometimes God sees fit and sometimes he doesn't. That doesnt go to say that I will be bitter if it doesn't happen then, I want that thing that is going to last forever and I'm not going to marry anyone just for the sake of being married just because I've hit the date that I wanted to be married in my head.
@Tara - I love ya so much girlie... That Diddy statement was right on point. That is exactly the mentality that men have now. If they can have the kids, a favorite girl that deals with and is content with all the side chicks and not ever have to step up and be a real companion (husband) then they wont. But we can't really blame it on them because we are the ones putting up with it just to have a man by our side. Even if it is only half of him and on his terms.
stepping outside your comfort zone is always a good thing...It builds to your experience and wisdom. Internet dating is the worst though!!!
I had to come back just to say that you be puttin the best songs on yo profile. Sometimes I open your page just to listen to your music so i can then steal it on my limewire...lol sorry that was totally off subject....Yay Marriage BOO committment issues BOOO!!
Great topic
I think there is some truth in what has been said. However, I don't think we can pin it all on black men. It's a societal issue. I've been married for nearly 9 yrs. I got married b/c that's what I wanted to do. My parents divorced when I was 13. I learned at early age what could happen if 2 people weren't committed to each other.
I think it's a societal issue b/c there are no values placed on marriage. How many of us know anybody that's been married for 20+ years? I'm not saying that marriages don't last that long but they are becoming scarce. Where are the values in marriage? Where is the commitment to the commitment? Those values are gone. It's easier to throw your hands up and quit than it is to stay and work at it. I know people who have gotten married and divorced within a yr. I don't think it's purely a BLACK man issue. The images and the lifestyles that we live don't support the mentality of being in a committed marriage. That goes for men and women. I think the issue is magnified in our community but I don't think it's necessarily a black issue.
I think women and men need to be honest what they want. I mean, if you met a man on Monday...you can't be trying to run down the aisle on Saturday. LOL. You get my point, tho. I think too women are focused on their wedding day and not the marriage. Hellooooo...a wedding only lasts for 25 mins. What about the rest of your life? Some women live by the "marriage clock" and want to push a brutha down the aisle. Bad move. I think too many men don't take marriage seriously. You don't get married only to figure out after 6 months that "you're not sure." That makes no sense. I think both men and women can do a better job communicating about what they want/expect in a marriage.
I've been married for nearly 9 yrs. I love my wife. I'd be lying if I said that there aren't days when she gets on my LAST nerve!!! And I might get on her nerves...occasionally. LOL. Marriage is hard work. It gets even harder once you have kids. But I've never known anything that is worth achieving that DIDN'T involve hard work.
(sorry so long, Eb...kinda got long winded like a preacher)
I can't bash all black men, there are some good men out there BUT still the figures are depressing, yesterday i was on the 52weekstofind him website...i thought she's taken matters into her own hands BUT would i do the same??NO...I also listened to Ne-yo's Miss Independent and I just thought of the guys who've been intimidated by me having my own...so to that song i say its all BULL in reality beyond the lyrics!!!
I think that Pastor Davison is right about why many Black men are not interested in marriage. I have wrestled with this issue for a while now - especially since I entered my 30s. Part of the problem with me (can't speak for anyone else) is that I have placed myself in this box, thinking that I could never date outside my race, I have to marry a Black man in order to be truly happy, etc. But the truth is if God wants to send me a husband that looks nothing like the man in my head, I have to be willing to accept him. And truthfully as I get a little wiser, the desire to be married to the right man has to be birthed from my desire to be married to God (to have a committed relationship to Him as Lover of my Soul). For me that is where it starts. It's not wholly dependent on men getting their acts together.
I started not to respond, but after reading all these comments, how could I not.
First, men do want to get married. Granted, the rise of incarceration, homosexuality and triflingness (i just made that up) do limit options for a black woman wanting a black man, but men are constantly looking for "the one".
That brings us to number two - compatibility versus marriage material. The term "everything that looks good ain't good for you" comes to mind. A lot of decisions get made on physical attraction, but as you dig deeper you may realize that the person just isn't your cup of tea. It goes both ways. Even in the blogosphere we make decisions based on how people look. You see an attractive face that speaks well and shows some passion about their topic of choice and you automatically assume they are a good catch. That person could be tore up from the floor up. They could have gambling issues, be a sex addict, keep a nasty house, not be able to cook, unable to keep a job, smelly, or just be downright crazy, but hey they look good!
Compatibility is one thing. I'm sure I'm compatible with a lot of women out here, but I probably wouldn't consider many of them for marriage. Why? Because I'm like everyone else - I require a certain combination of ingredients that everyone won't have and there may be a lot of little things that simply turn me off. It happens.
What's my point? There are a lot of reasons as to why a person is single. You can't put it on one thing.
However, people can limit their heartache by not creating an emotional attachment so fast. That goes for men and women. Dig below the surface and that doesn't include getting below the waistline.
Part 2
Independent women. The man for you won't be tripping off that. BUT a real man will be just that - real. I don't get these women who think they are going to find this great man, but then think he's going to bow down to them. That's nowhere in the "man" book. I'm not tripping off you making your own money and all of that, but I'm not your son, I'm your MAN. Expect me to run it. I'm not appoligizing for it either -- Neyo is a punk - that song is weak. To me it borderlines on a man wanting a momma and not a woman. That's my opinion.
I got more, but I have to get back to work. Enough blogging for one day already. Peace.
I always get to feeling some kind of way about these types of posts. I think as a whole, us women tend to regard marriage differently than many men do. A lot of us, especially older women in my experience, tend to look for a husband. Like "I've got to have a husband by xxxxx date", whereas a lot of men think about "I'm trying to have the best time I can in life, and if I can have that best time with one woman, then that's great and I'll make her my wife". They're rarely on a wife hunt. I've been reading a lot of women's websites lately that make me really sad...they're so focused on finding a husband rather than finding fulfillment in whatever way it comes.
Yes, in general we want to be coupled up. I believe that's in our nature, but some women will sacrifice themselves just to say they have a husband. Half the time they aren't happy, or the dude has the personality of toilet water, or worse yet, he's abusive. But of course, she'll say "giiiirrrl, at least I have a husband". Like that's a badge of honor or something.
My husband said that if he hadn't grown up in a home where marriage was the norm, he probably wouldn't have grown up wanting to get married. I agree with his statement. If all you see is single women around you raising families on their own and they *seem* to be fine, then why on earth would marriage even be considered as an option?
Hold up tho...
This is an issue as a Black collective that must be addressed. To single out this as a problem directly responsible or as the effect of the Black man is not the way to go.
Truth is, there are various factors which has led to the numbers being the way they are. To me, both Black men and women have their part to play in this.
@Turn me up - Glad you approve of the rotation!
@Kyle - "The images and the lifestyles that we live don't support the mentality of being in a committed marriage."
Exactly... our young boys aren't growing up with the images and that's why they have no desire to be married. But in that same token, that isnt an excuse. Their are plenty of things we dont experiencing growing up that we expand our horizons to as adults.
@Shonavixen - I haven't heard of that site but I will def check it out.
It is bull beyond the lyrics but the majority of black men dont feel that way. They are intimidated by the chick that has her own. I'm also not blaming it solely on them though because there is a reason that have this bad perception of the independent woman. Some black women when they have there's can be snooty, so unapproachable when their out that they probably deserve to be by themselves. Wrong for turning their noses up at the blue collar brother. But that person is NOT me, so why should I have to take the bad rap for the independent women that are like that. We are not all the same!
@myowne - I am the same way. I dont want an asian or white or latino or anything else that aint that good chocolate. I want a brutha, and I want chocolate babies and I pray that is what God sees fit for me too. Although I am entertaining the possibility of dabbling in a little bit of something else while my brother to the night finds me.
@Rich - I think your Part 2 is right on point and the main reason that Independent women get a bad rap. I am not trying to take any part of his manhood just because I can take care of myself. I dont walk a punk or someone that I can walk over. To me, that is a turn off. Not all independent women want that and as soon and men realize that, they can finally drop that wall of intimidation. I want a man who is aggressive who can still put me in my place if need be. Not someone I can manipulate.
@Tasha - yes that is a big problem as well. So many women want to get married just for the sake of being married. Everything can be wrong in their life but as long as they got a man their happy. I think that's the wrong mentality as well and can be another reason men are steering the other way. In the back of their mind they know its every woman's dream to have that ring and that grand day and that means nothing to them since they could live a fulfilled life without either.
@Rippa - I was hoping that I didn't come off that way that I felt this matter is solely the black man's fault because I dont believe that to be true at all. The title of the post was from the pastor.
Great post Eb.
Can i just find a good man to be in a relationship with and worry bout marriage later lol.
U kno..i think that for women..marriage is always stressed to us evn as a child but for men...marriage is not stressed as sumthin they need/shuld do. My ex had no desire to get married..his mom has nevr married..and has been in a relationship with a man for 15+ yrs..so hes like if my mom didnt get married..why shuld I? And I had to respect his thoughts on it. Tho I wulda nevr married him lol.
I do think that as women get older..more educated etc...we raise our standards and sumtimes 4get the good man that mayb nevr went to college but still is successful.
I'm tryin to be open to diff't men..races..etc...but havent met any1 that i wanna take a chance w/ just yet hehe.
You know Im not finding the problem with the men that dont want to get married, hell Im finding all the wrong ones that want to get married and they are not for me....
damn then again, I should reconsider some ish!!
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